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k&n factory replacement or cold air intake kit

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k&n factory replacement or cold air intake kit

Post by tonyhatchetman » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 16:24 PM

just wondering if the difference is really worth all the trouble..........what would you do and why
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Post by puller » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 16:35 PM

really depends what its going on, some trucks its worth it some its not, what do you want to put it on?

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Post by tonyhatchetman » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 16:42 PM

05 nissan frontier .........the thing is that i bought a stock replacement for 55$ at autozone but i found a cold air intake on the web it comes with a k&n and every thing for 79$ + 20$ to ship .............thats the deal so i was just wondering if it wolud be worth the 45$ and the time ........thanks
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Post by Ran2370 » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 16:54 PM

That seems like a pretty good deal. I've had two vehicles with the cold air intake. One was 97 jeep wrangler and it did give it a bit more giddy up, the other is a dodge ram 1500. DO'nt really know if it helped the ram because i put new throttle body on and a hypertech computer programer at sametime, both times cold air intake cost around 250.00 brand new. They say if you use the cold air intake you should upgrade the exhaust to a bigger diameter to get full potential(more air in, more air out).

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Post by Ran2370 » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 16:58 PM

OH yeah I forgot to mention it did'nt help gas mileage(gas mileage stayed the same).


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Post by linx » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 17:00 PM

We put a FIPK (Fuel Injection Performance Kit) from K&N on my brothers Dakota R/T and it made a difference. You can really hear that truck breathing now! When you hit the gas, you can hear the intake from inside the cab and it sounds nice.

I have a normal K&N filter in most of our work trucks. They're easily washable, and we can clean them at our leisure. We usually forget about them and clean them probably every 10 or so oil changes. They work nice for us, and we're on dusty constructions sites all day, and even get some mud in them from time to time.
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Post by Ran2370 » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 17:06 PM

They do sound nice, kinda like when we used to flip the cover(air filter cover)on the old four barrel.

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RE k&n factory replacement or cold air intake kit

Post by slydog » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 17:09 PM

tonyhatchetman wrote:just wondering if the difference is really worth all the trouble..........what would you do and why
If more air is flowing through a K&N filter it stands to reason that smaller particles must be getting through the filter too. Cold air intakes are snake oil....if you want more power port and polish the heads and get a performance chip.
Purolater, Wix, or OEM air filters may not pass as much air but they darn sure stop more dirt.
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Post by Lost Sheep » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 17:35 PM

That's why the oil is there............to chatch the dirt particles!

Sure, you've got to have bigger holes to flow more air, which in turn would let more dirt through, right? That is, unless you oil the filter....and WALLAH, your dirt issue is solved.

I personally love the K&N intake kits. I have one on my Jeep and my Honda Accord.
FYI, I could tell a difference in mileage on BOTH vehicles....not much, but some. Not to mention....they sound AWESOME!!

BUY IT!!!

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Post by Black Lightning » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 17:49 PM

A K&N air filter is great for airflow, but the problem is that they simply don't clean as well as regular paper filters do. That's how they can flow more air - there is less filter. Even with the oil, there is not so much filtration as with paper element filters. This is not an issue on racing or motorsport vehicles where the engines are serviced on a regular basis, but it can become one on a vehicle that isn't expected to have an overhaul for over a hundred thousand miles.

Running one can help increase power - if there is a filter related air intake restriction. Cold air intakes can help under certain circumstances - but are largely snake oil on a daily driver vehicle.

Slydog pretty much nailed it.
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Post by Lost Sheep » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 18:17 PM

Well, I'll vouch for "snakeoil" then.....considering I've had one (K&N cold air kit) in my

1992 JEEP Wrangler since it was new!!!

350,000 MILES LATER IT'S STILL KICKIN'!!! The engine has never been touched internally!

If K&N filters caused problems due to inferior filtration.....WELL, dont cha' think something would've shown up by now??
Not only in my engine, but in MILLIONS of others. In this SUE HAPPY world we live in, I'm sure SOMEBODY would've filed a big lawsuit against K&N, it would be splattered all over TV, and nobody would buy K&N. Well, that's not the case, considering K&N filters are still the #1 selling "performance" filter in the world.

I rest my case. Hey...just my 2 cents.

Yall have a great day. See Ya.

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Post by coletrain » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 19:25 PM

I have a Volant cold air intake on my Chevy Colorado. I noticed lower RPM at crusing speed. I figure if the motor is turning less RPM at the same speed, then I may be saving a little gas. It is totally quiet like the stock intake, but if I step on the pedal....WHOA! You can really tell that there is a little more horspower and sounds like a whole new engine. Deep throaty sound. I like the fact that I never have to buy another filter again. I just use the cleaner, rinse, let dry, and spray on the oil. I figure its paid for itself by now between gas and not having to buy new filters. To each his own i guess. I have a K&N in my motorcycle. It dosent make a difference, expect its reusable. again saving $$

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Post by Grocery Hauler » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 19:34 PM

I have a cold air intake system on my 05 Wrangler made by AEM that uses a dry synthetic filter that they claim is 99.52 percent efficient in fine particals as small as one micron. The intake did make a small difference in performance but did not hurt nor help fuel economy. It does sound cool though! The thing that helped performance the most was the Edge trailjammer kit which consist of an over sized throttle body and performance chip. I didn't tell the wife I put it on but she noticed the first time she drove it after it was installed. Her response was "What the he!! did you do to the Jeep!" :shock: :D Hope this helps.
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Post by drdx » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 19:59 PM

Well, we have 3 topics going here, those being filtration, cold air, and air flow, 3 totally different things. Filtration is gonna determine the passage of the particles. I've used K&N's for a long time and seen no ill effects, but that's just me. I've only used the stock replacements. I have modified the part where the flow comes in, including fabbing lesser restrictive setups, and some go hand in hand and provide cooler intake air. It can be strongly debated about filter quality, but increased flow can help on certain vehicles.

Now the big one here is the cold air part of the cold air intake kit. The intake temp, and reducing it, can make several percent difference in performance. I've heard figures something to the effect of 1% for every 10 degrees in temp reduction, but that's something I've heard for years. Think about how much better a car runs in cooler temps than on a really hot day. Think about your engine on a 90 degree day. Would you rather your engine taking in the air under the hood, next to that motor and exhaust manifold, operating via that 180 degree or whatever thermostat? Or........would you rather your engine taking in outside air? Even if that outside air is 100 degrees, on a hot day, especially in traffic, it is much cooler than what is swirling around under the hood. So, using that as a possible rule, and I'm not saying it means anything, if you reduced your intake temp by 50 degrees doing that, and that gave you 5%, on a 300 horse motor, that is 15hp. Like wattage, it all adds up, but would you feel it? And, how does it change the torque curves throughout the RPM range? I certainly don't know, but changing to a K&N and fabbing something up sure makes for some fun, and possibly some increase in performance of some kind.

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Post by kg95 » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 20:02 PM

I read the question but not all the replies

COLD AIR INTAKE IS EVERYTHING

If you want a seat of the pants difference, you need something that will give you
50-60 bhp or a torque increase like 2000 more rpms at the converter
or a gear ratio multiplication of like 1.5

cold air will give you some 10ths which can win races

underhood air can be 100 degrees hotter than outside air.

Performer RPM - AIR manifolds are great for street and strip.

I used to use ziplocks packed with ice and paper towels to keep my times consistant as the car heated up

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Post by drdx » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 20:03 PM

I think we were echoing each other there, you just said it in fewer words, well put. -drdx
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Post by tonyhatchetman » Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 21:54 PM

ok so is it worth 45 more dollars and a lot more work or will the factory replacement do ...........like 100% as is 115% with a factory replacement and 118% with the c/a intake with a k&n because if that is all the difference them i will just stick with the f/replcement thanks for the input guys
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Post by drdx » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 6:14 AM

Well, I just do the factory deal myself, and see it more as a savings deal. I keep the original stock one so I can put it in when I clean the k&n, as it will need to dry a bit after you clean it. I've also been concerned on some of the cold air intakes as far as water intake, and you know we get some street flooding here in our area, as you probably saw last week. -drdx
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Post by tonyhatchetman » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 6:44 AM

drdx wrote:Well, I just do the factory deal myself, and see it more as a savings deal. I keep the original stock one so I can put it in when I clean the k&n, as it will need to dry a bit after you clean it. I've also been concerned on some of the cold air intakes as far as water intake, and you know we get some street flooding here in our area, as you probably saw last week. -drdx
good point drdx i think i will do the same thanks.......i hear ya on the flooding i wish it would rain more we did not get a drop at my house.
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Post by NCMidnight » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 8:26 AM

Just my two cent worth.. I run a K&N CA system (aftermarket) on both my Z-71 and GT.. I've never had any issues..112,000miles on truck.. Cold air equals less mass which equals more volume per cylinder on intake stroke, which in turn equals more compression per cylinder on compression stroke.. Stock exaust will hinder the performance slightly Dont take my word for it buy a compression tester and see for yourself.. I do however suggest cleaning/replacing the filter often.. good luck with whatever you decide to do.. :)

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Post by puller » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 8:58 AM

pretty much all new vehicles have intakes that draw in cold outside air, they just have a restrictive filter in them. i would keep the factory replacement K&N filter, the tiny bit you would gain from the intake kit wouldn't be worth it. thats just my two cents.

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Post by T1g3rEyz3 » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 11:19 AM

As drdx stated... lot of different topics included in this thread. I'd like to add one more since the topic was brought up... oiling. Be careful not to over oil the filter as over-oiling has a proven link to MAF sensor fouling. The sensor can be cleaned (carefully), but why cause the problem in the first place? As the instructions say, a "light coating" is sufficient.

That said, I've been running a K&N drop-in filter (in factory air box, using factory ducting) for well over 150k miles (212k miles on the clock as of this posting) - no problems at all. For daily driving purposes, a difference isn't readily noticeable - the factory system was designed to be sufficient for that. However, WOT response is markedly better (more air flow means more power). I have a full custom exhaust (headers and cat-back), which makes it that much better.

To answer the original posters question, "will the full system make that much difference?" I would spend the extra $ since it's not that much difference just to get the less turbulent air flow path. My filter alone was ~$45 when I purchased it years ago. The best price I've found for a full FIPK system for my truck is $265 - quite a price difference IMO. If the difference was a slight as what you quoted, I'd have gone with the full system - provided that it still pulls air from outside the engine bay. There are countless debates regarding the power gains/differences from pulling in cool outside air vs pulling in MORE air (even though it's hot under hood air). If all you are doing is daily driving, I would keep what you have. If you do any towing or racing, go with the full system.

What kind of vehicle are you running this in anyway?
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Post by T1g3rEyz3 » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 11:24 AM

NCMidnight wrote:...Cold air equals less mass which equals more volume per cylinder on intake stroke, which in turn equals more compression per cylinder on compression stroke.. Stock exaust will hinder the performance slightly Dont take my word for it buy a compression tester and see for yourself.. I do however suggest cleaning/replacing the filter often.. good luck with whatever you decide to do.. :)
I think you meant that cold air is MORE dense than hot air, so it has MORE mass (for the same volume of space) than hot air. More air = more oxygen (necessary for combustion).

I think this is what you were thinking, but it just came out backwards. 8)
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Post by tonyhatchetman » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 12:32 PM

tonyhatchetman wrote:05 nissan frontier .........the thing is that i bought a stock replacement for 55$ at autozone but i found a cold air intake on the web it comes with a k&n and every thing for 79$ + 20$ to ship .............thats the deal so i was just wondering if it wolud be worth the 45$ and the time ........thanks
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Post by NCMidnight » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 12:38 PM

T1g3rEyz3 wrote:
NCMidnight wrote:...Cold air equals less mass which equals more volume per cylinder on intake stroke, which in turn equals more compression per cylinder on compression stroke.. Stock exaust will hinder the performance slightly Dont take my word for it buy a compression tester and see for yourself.. I do however suggest cleaning/replacing the filter often.. good luck with whatever you decide to do.. :)
I think you meant that cold air is MORE dense than hot air, so it has MORE mass (for the same volume of space) than hot air. More air = more oxygen (necessary for combustion).

I think this is what you were thinking, but it just came out backwards. 8)
touche.. good catch on that one. :) It was a screw up, thx for bringing it to my attention.
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Post by T1g3rEyz3 » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 13:51 PM

tonyhatchetman wrote:05 nissan frontier .........the thing is that i bought a stock replacement for 55$ at autozone but i found a cold air intake on the web it comes with a k&n and every thing for 79$ + 20$ to ship .............thats the deal so i was just wondering if it wolud be worth the 45$ and the time ........thanks
I realized that right after I hit "submit"... sorry.

I think the Frontiers have a fairly smooth intake as is... small, but smooth. It's your call on this one. If your pockets are tight... hold on to the one that's already paid for. If you've got some scratch to spare, go for the kit. Shouldn't take much of your time to install.
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Post by slydog » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 14:43 PM

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Post by 721HACKSAW » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 15:46 PM

What if you live in the northern part of the country, or Canada? Are you going to remove it in the winter time? Don't get me wrong, but the factory has done a lot of research to provide what the vehicle needs for a lot of different enviroments. I tend to leave my every day drivers stock, now on a performance vehicle that will see only occasional use, anything goes!

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Post by Phaze91460 » Thursday, 28 August 2008, 15:59 PM

drdx wrote:Well, we have 3 topics going here, those being filtration, cold air, and air flow, 3 totally different things. Filtration is gonna determine the passage of the particles. I've used K&N's for a long time and seen no ill effects, but that's just me. I've only used the stock replacements. I have modified the part where the flow comes in, including fabbing lesser restrictive setups, and some go hand in hand and provide cooler intake air. It can be strongly debated about filter quality, but increased flow can help on certain vehicles.

Now the big one here is the cold air part of the cold air intake kit. The intake temp, and reducing it, can make several percent difference in performance. I've heard figures something to the effect of 1% for every 10 degrees in temp reduction, but that's something I've heard for years. Think about how much better a car runs in cooler temps than on a really hot day. Think about your engine on a 90 degree day. Would you rather your engine taking in the air under the hood, next to that motor and exhaust manifold, operating via that 180 degree or whatever thermostat? Or........would you rather your engine taking in outside air? Even if that outside air is 100 degrees, on a hot day, especially in traffic, it is much cooler than what is swirling around under the hood. So, using that as a possible rule, and I'm not saying it means anything, if you reduced your intake temp by 50 degrees doing that, and that gave you 5%, on a 300 horse motor, that is 15hp. Like wattage, it all adds up, but would you feel it? And, how does it change the torque curves throughout the RPM range? I certainly don't know, but changing to a K&N and fabbing something up sure makes for some fun, and possibly some increase in performance of some kind.

-drdx
I had some years as a certified master tech under my belt in my past and specialized in engine performance. I havent been in that business in years but I do read a lot and I just cant leave anything stock weather it is motors, guns, tools, whatever. I have a true cold air intake on my dodge truck. Most of the cold air intakes advertised are not cold air. They are typically a tube to smooth air going into the throttle body and a performance filter on the intake end. That aint cold air as you are pulling air from under the hood. Most imports pull air from around the exhaust manifold. While that aint a bad thing in the winter or when warming up, during summer in the south it is hell on the motor.

My cold air system pulls from the stock fender location with an additional tube to between the radiator and grill. The air filter is closed in a box so that it only receives the cooler air from outside the engine compartment.

The tests show most cold air or performance tubes only draw 3-10% increases in horse power. This means on a standard American V-6 running around 200 HP an average of 12 HP on a dyno. Can you tell the difference ? maybe and maybe not. Most ppl cannot tell.

Now the real issue is value. Can that extra HP provide value to you. If you drag race, yup, bet it can. If you use a work truck like me and haul trailers and weight, yup, bet it can ( and does ) however if you commute with this vehicle and you are in need of more fuel economy rather than coming off the light harder then this might not be much value to you. While you will receive more HP and more MPG it is not much and considering a true cold air system will run around $300 and the gas mileage might be figured as a small decimal point, its hard to justify. You might make up the cost over the life of the car, or not.

As far as sound, mine does not make much more than stock. Hell my exhaust makes enough noise to cover almost anything including my stereo.
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Post by White Lightning » Thursday, 04 September 2008, 13:35 PM

I did the drop in K&N air filter
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Post by Four » Thursday, 04 September 2008, 15:34 PM

they claim that cold air intakes really help in these new mustangs....personally...i just went with a k&n filter...im in way to much mud and water to use a cold air in fear of sucking the water down into my engine alot easier....i know on our old racecars that having the air filter above the hood helped them because they were pulling cool air...not the heat off of an engine...personally...id say depending on what you are doing...as to which one i would use...

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Post by Grump » Monday, 06 October 2008, 1:34 AM

Most new cars have cold air intakes the problem is they are so restrictive most of them are setup to pull in cold air between inner fender and outer fender these new so called cold air inductions systems are just less restrictive .also easier to get water into whick in its own right can cause alot of problems


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